« Los Angeles Times to Readers | Main | Got a 401k? »
October 29, 2008
Don't judge Obama
We pay people and organize people to go to all the online sites and “play the part of a clinton or mccain supporter who just switched our support for obama”We do this to stifle your motivation and to destroy your confidence.
We did this the whole primary and it worked.
Posted by Darleen at October 29, 2008 06:21 AM
Comments
So, is it safe to assume, Darleen, that come next week, your little reactionary, social con head will explode?
I mean, can you keep up this rage for the next four years? The resentment? The sense of entitlement? Can the wacky Christian theocrat inside you survive until the mid-terms?
I know you can, Darleen. I know you and Jeff and Dan and the rest of the Anger brigade can do it! Two years of aggrieved belief in the oppression of the white male and society’s prejudice against Christianity, passionate hatred of taxes, and lingering hate of ACORN can keep you warm during your long winter.
You are the angry, resentful, sore losers you have have been waiting for, Darleen!
Posted by: timb at October 29, 2008 07:25 AM
Pot, meet kettle.
Posted by: Chris at October 29, 2008 05:38 PM
Chris, you'd have a cliched, hackneyed, unoriginal point if I were an angry white male accusing the future President of being a Muslim, Socialist Anti-Christ, except that I am not a theocrat like Darleen, or a person who refuses to pay taxes in exchange for government services like Darleen, or a person who believes that Christians are being pushed around in our country like Darleen.
So, think of another clever "blog-speak" comeback... or join with me in enjoying Darleen's half-witted head explosion come 8 pm EST on November 4th.
The wave is coming and Darleen and the rest of the Birchers are gonna have to go back to the fringes where they belong.
Nixon, Reagan and Atwater screwed up by letting them play in the first place. That mistake will now be fixed during the electoral realignment to come.
Posted by: timb at October 30, 2008 07:01 AM
Sounds like timb has a thing for Christians.
Posted by: ML at October 30, 2008 08:28 AM
>blockquote>Sounds like timb has a thing for Christians
Yeah, I'm married to one and she's hot and wonderful.
Sounds like ML has a chip on his/her shoulder about Christians...
Posted by: timb at October 30, 2008 09:06 AM
ML, I forgot to note that I also voted for one last week. You know, the one Darleen is so afraid of?
You'd think she wouldn't quake in fear of a fellow Christian, but Darleen reserves the right to determine whose faith is authentic and whose faith is not. She's a piece of work
Posted by: timb at October 30, 2008 09:08 AM
Uh, Obama didn't say "socialism" or "redistribution". It's a neat trick indeed to have him saying "Don't judge me by my words" and then have a bunch of words he never said.
Posted by: Josh at October 30, 2008 11:48 AM
Don't be angry at Darleen, Josh. You have to mash together a bunch of untruths to see the TRUTH. But, Darleen, anti-school crusader, theocrat wannabe, and her Sunday School class know more about what's good for America than anyone else.
She believes he's a mean, nasty man and that's good enough
Posted by: timb at October 31, 2008 06:58 AM
Timb
So you consider the KKK to be Christians also?
I wouldn’t, but then I have morals and such and understand the standards the Bible sets.
Just because they call it a church doesn’t make it one, the Rev Wrong is no Christian and Obama’s former church doesn’t know who Christ even is.
In order to even be called a Christian, one must follow Christ, hence the word Christian.
You are using it as just a label and nothing more.
Posted by: ML at October 31, 2008 07:30 AM
Whereas you are using faith to play God and choose whose belief is valid and whose is not! I assume that's based upon your experience in the Reverend's church...
Oh, hold it, you haven't been there? Oh, you have no idea what the man said in 99.99999% of his sermons that Sean Hannity didn't air? Oh, you have no idea about the charity work that church has done? Or, it's community presence? Just how many time, ML, have you been in a black church? (Don't worry, I know the answer)
But, you pretend to know the hearts and faith of 8000 people, based upon their worship style and your blinkered understanding of Christianity?
You are a self-righteous Pharisee, ML. You, the sinner, like Darleen, the sinner, have the absolute conviction of Right which led to witch trials, summary executions, and the religious wars which plague us. You should be in church right now, ML, praying for forgiveness for judging other men's hearts.
On the other, I couldn't care less if you want to keep dividing your 20% of Americans into more narrow groups. As your response indicates (nice plank in that eye by the way), you and Darleen subscribe to an ideology that is poisonous, judgmental, ossified, and ready to be retired.
On November 5, ML, you might want to venture to church and ask the ol' pastor how this "terrible thing" happened, and, when he tells you it happened because America is wicked and needs to be judged, you just might think back to the fact that the Reverend Wright said exactly the same thing, but in a different cultural way.
I'm guessing you won't do that, because it's a lot easier to sit back and think you're right all the time than to constantly question why you think you can judge the Christianity of others.
P.S. But, heh, goose and gander and all: let me just state that YOU'RE not a Christian, ML, because you don't follow Christ in your blog statements.
P.P.S. I like arguing with the blinkered and hidebound. It's a lot of fun.
http://www.bartleby.com/108/40/7.html
Posted by: timb at October 31, 2008 10:55 AM
Once again, the left demonstrates how they get to define the terms. It makes arguing so much easier, you see.
Posted by: Chris at October 31, 2008 12:33 PM
Timb
For you too say I cant judge them is ludicrous and reeks of hypocrisy as you then make numerous judgements against me that you draw from conclusions based on my writings not based in any fact, while my judgements are based in actual fact, that’s interesting don’t you think.
I am not playing God, I am using the brain God gave me, to do what God told me, “test all things” and “test all spirits” so you don’t fall for stupid bullshit. Otherwise you will fall for every kind of bullshit doctrine and wont have the ability to decipher truth from fiction.
The KKK claims to worship the same God as Jews, but Jews don’t think so, do you think those Jews made that conclusion without making any judgements?
It doesn’t matter what the Rev Wrong said 99.99% of the other time, unless he suffers from major multi-personality disorder it wouldn’t diverge very far. Are you aware the good rev Wrong tapes and sells his sermons?
How about the other crazy people that have spoken at that church who also give crazy sermons just like the Rev Wrong?
I also have not listened to hundreds of hours of tapes from the KKK or been to their meetings, yet oddly enough I know who and what they stand for, same with church Obama and the Rev Wrong, who I have heard even more sermons from than the KKK.
So if the KKK did really good charity work you would dismiss their rabid racism?
Probably not, unless they are the black KKK and they do a little charity work, then you think its just fine to be a racist.
Personally I am not really surprised, typical illiberal standards on display.
Posted by: ML at October 31, 2008 04:07 PM
Timb would like you to believe that decisions are made in the absence of judgements but nothing can be farther from the truth.
Posted by: ML at October 31, 2008 05:30 PM
ML,
Since you are such a devout follower of Christ qualified to judge who is an authentic Christian and who is not, could you help me out and point me to where Christ condemned abortion and/or homosexuality? Thanks in advance!
Posted by: Josh at October 31, 2008 09:50 PM
The Old Testament explicitly condemns homosexuality. The New Testament is not a refutation of the OT, it supersedes it. There are many issues that Jesus did not address directly, and this is one of them. However, Paul did, and he explicitly condemned homosexuality. He included it in his lists of depraved behavior that mark the fruits of a carnal life.
Now, having said that, homosexuality is generally considered by most evangelicals as a sin, the same as any other sin. Some may place more emphasis on it in comparison to other sins, but most consider it unexceptional. Sin is sin, and God doesn't rank them. Most sermons I have heard that mentioned homosexuality (and that is a small number in attending evangelical churches for almost 20 years) mentioned it alongside other sins, the point being that just because someone's a homosexual they are not a worse sinner than you are with whatever you have interfering with your relationship with God. That is what sin is, at root, something that hinders your relationship with God because it causes you to focus on wordly (carnal, or fleshly) concerns.
Abortion is not even an issue. Jesus was explicitly in favor of life, as is God, since He created it. This is what Pope John Paul II was referring to when he continually criticized the "culture of death" that the secular world has embraced, where the death of a fetus is celebrated as a lifestyle choice.
Posted by: Chris at November 1, 2008 03:14 AM
Josh
I really am surprised you didn’t trot-out the Bible condones slavery line.
Abortion, the 10 commandments, “Thou shall not murder”.
Homosexuality, again the 10 commandments, “Thou shall not commit fornication”.
And as Chris has explained homosexuality is considered a sin just as with adultery.
As I already explained, I am not judging their hearts, only God can do that, I am judging their actions and deeds, because a good tree does not produce bad fruit.
If the actions and deeds of the current President of the US can be judged so as to determine whether they are good or bad then the actions and deeds of churches and other groups can also be
judged and determinations made. Contrary to illiberal illogic.
I know that doesn’t fit with your and timb agenda, it leaves nothing to lambast, so I am sure you and timb will ignore it and continue to obfuscate.
Posted by: ML at November 1, 2008 08:23 AM
its kinda cute to see timb set up a fake cartoon of what he thinks I or JeffG says, than dismisses and mocks that cartoon of his own creation.
I mean, he calls it "Darleen is anti-school, theocrat, entitlement minded" yadda yadda yadda but anyone who has read anything I've written knows that's not me.
silly timmy
Posted by: Darleen at November 1, 2008 09:12 AM
timb
If The One does win, I won't rage. You seem to think basic American values people act like Leftists.
But my behavior will change, that's for sure. I'm going to be exploring all the ways to avoid funding Obama's "fundamental change of making America more like socialist Europe".
Posted by: Darleen at November 1, 2008 09:15 AM
Yo, TimB, you da man! I love when articulate normal folk take the time to speak some common sense to these know nothing bigots. Good job. And Darleen's flimsy pitty pat response shows how effective you are. I agree the coming years of Obama Derangement Syndrome are going to be quite the spectacular show in Wingnuttia.
Re: Christianity and this most unnatural alliance the Ayn Randians have somehow managed to blaspheme themselves into. Christ was a very simple preacher. His message was simple enough for a child to understand: Love. That's all. Any ornamentation to that philosophy distorts and warps it. Christ would NOT have been a gun advocate. He would NOT have supported the war in Iraq, or indeed, any war. He never gave any thought to human sexuality, except - through his rescue of the adulteress from stoning and his friendship with the loose Mary Magdelane - to warn against judgment of others. He taught that only the poor would enter into the kingdom of heaven. He beseeched all people to think of others, not themselves, to put the poorest and the weakest and the most unlovable above themselves....From this, our most bizarre and unnatural Yankee Christians have created a new religion, almost completely divorced from the Christ of the Gospel, who believes in lots of war, killing of infidels, hatred of gays, worship of wealth. It is almost unspeakable to put their ideas into the same sentence as the name of Jesus Christ.
Darleen is the embodiment of the snarling, meanspirited, money grubbing, hate filled bigot Christ spent his short life putting in their place. The irony is pure comedy. The sad noir kind of comedy.
Posted by: Leah at November 2, 2008 08:37 AM
Leah, you are a fool. Christ did preach a simple message; reconciliation with God. He also preached many complicated messages, like how we need to kill our worldly nature constantly, and how acting in a counter-intuitive manner would spread the Gospel. He did not say that the poor would enter heaven, but the the rich would have great difficulty in accepting His message, since they were fully invested in worldly treasures.
Christians are certainly supposed to think of others before themselves, but not out of some kind of misplaced sympathy for them, but out of our love for God. God loves everyone, including the grossest of sinners, so we should also love them. We are not called to ignore their sins, however. We are to love the sinner and hate the sin. This means we do not condone sinful behavior.
Please show me some examples of this Yankee Christianity you speak of, and make them examples that other Christians would find valid. This does not include that asshole Fred Phelps, or the KKK. Christians do not kill infidels, we would like to convert them; that is why missionaries work covertly and peacefully in many areas where Christianity is persecuted or outlawed. We do not pursue apostates. The worship of wealth is explicitly condemned in both the OT and the NT, not because wealth is sinful, but because the love of it is, as it substitutes money for God. Prosperity theology is not mainstream, it is a perversion.
Christ spent His short life opposing religious bigots. He rarely interacted with secular authorities. He had little interest in how the secular world operated at all, except in how it affected His mission, which was to bring mankind back to God.
Posted by: Chris at November 3, 2008 07:24 AM
Dar,
you think I haven't watched your slow progression toward madness this entire year with interest? You grow more unhinged everyday (and really, the cartoon line is Jeff's; you can do better than steal from him...of course, I guess your readership is about the same now, so maybe you should steal from him): accusing Obama of socialism and Marxism and telling us how he's gonna take our money and kill the little babies (h/t jill stanek) and chase after all the little white grandma's until he can get 'em!
I've watched the impending explosion, Dar Dar, and tomorrow's gonna be the most entertaining screech of whining since Bill Clinton beat the impeachment rap.
P.S. the concept that you are not virulently anti-public schools is one of the most disingenuous you have tried to claim. It's up there with "Obama gonna take our guns, kill our babies, and take our money too!"
Posted by: timb at November 3, 2008 01:23 PM
Oh, and ML, your barely concealed bigotry showing a bit with
So if the KKK did really good charity work you would dismiss their rabid racism?
Trinity, despite your best effort, is not dedicated to racism. IT has white and Hispanic members and, of course, the good Father Pflegler is a white dude.
The idea, held by you and yours, that one is a racist church because Trinity sees racism in America and deplores the wars that kill innocents and guilty abroad in equal number is a difference you have politically with them. The Bible I read as a kid didn't mention whether one had to be a conservative Republican to be an authentic believer or a patriotic American for that matter. Yours does? How strange
Posted by: timb at November 3, 2008 01:31 PM
Timb
Where did I say you had to be a republican to be a Christian?
Sounds like nothing but projection to me.
You even admit that Obama’s former church is political, churches shouldn’t be political, they should be churches.
And why has Obama become a non-member after the rev Wrong was exposed?
That alone suggest its not acceptable by most Americans.
If you don’t see the black theology that church teaches as racist, I think you’re deceiving your self. But you are free to make your own choices.
Father Pflegler is a white guy, but that doesn’t mean anything, I wouldn’t listen to him and give his political false religion the time of day.
I go to church to learn the word of God not some crazy rhetoric.
Not one church I have ever been to had a Pastor that would even consider acting in such a dishonorable manner as the people who preach at Trinity United Church of Christ.
Why has Obama become a non-member after the rev Wrong was exposed?
Posted by: ML at November 3, 2008 03:55 PM
Chris, I often ask this of Yankee style Christians, and they can never answer it: Where did Christ say we should "love the sinner, hate the sin"?
It's not a mere idiosyncracy that Ayn Rand was an atheist. There have never been two more fundamentally incompatible philosophies than Capitalism and Christianity. The unholy alliance Republicans have made of it doesn't do a thing towards reconciling them. It's a factory for exactly the hypocrisy we see from the wingers.
Posted by: Leah at November 3, 2008 04:39 PM
Leah
How is Christianity fundamentally incompatible with capitalism?
Posted by: ML at November 3, 2008 04:54 PM
How was Abraham not a capitalist in the Old Testament.
He owned his own business, made his own decisions and traded his goods at current market value.
How it that not capitalism, or are you speaking of a different capitalism?
Posted by: ML at November 3, 2008 05:02 PM
ML..don't have time to go into this with you unfortunately, but I think you might start with this: Christianity is about the life of Christ..as in, New Testament.
Old Testament: An eye for an eye.
New Testament: Turn the other cheek.
It helps to know which religion we're discussing and the profound ways that Christ revolutionized the Old Testament teachings. Christianity is NOT a practical philosophy. It is beautiful but largely unpracticeable. Which is why so few practice it, though many pretend to.
The essence of Christianity disdains all wealth and material possessions. The essence of Capitalism is the naturalness of an economic system based on mankind's most reliable impulse - greed and self interest. They are fundamentally incongruent. Ayn Rand understood this. So do fiscal Republicans. It only becomes a problem when the fiscal Repubs try to exploit the social conservatives by congratulating them on their blatantly hypocritical brand of "christianity".
Posted by: Leah at November 3, 2008 05:15 PM
it is always amusing to see people who hate Xtians and running dog capitalists attempt to define the beliefs.
(hey timb, still smarting over your dismissal from the adults at PW?)
Leah troll deliberately forgets several things... Christ said "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." and also "My kingdom is not of this world"
Christ was here to minister to people's souls, to make people understand that life on earth is where we learn our lessons, grow in the sight of God and work our way into God's grace.
Greed is the lust for the unearned. It is part of our nature and all ethical monotheistic religions are about helping people cope and giving them tools to fight against our nature.
HOWEVER it is perverse, evil, to attempt to tell people honest work IS greed, or "property is theft". Leftist ideology is based on theft. It is a scam, just as Leah's attempt to "explain" Christianity is a scam.
Ayn Rand was an atheist, certainly, a reaction to her upbringing and the horrible time of the Bolshevik rape of Russia she lived through ... then to finally escape to the US and her family "disappeared" during the Stalin era I'm sure she felt God had abandoned her and her family. She was going to be shut of God.
But Rand doesn't look at Man as a collection of amino acids that has the moral worth of a rock; she is a believer in "natural rights", ie Man has inherent rights that governments can either secure or abbrogate. So her Jewish upbringing still comes through.
capitalism is the only economic system consistent with Man as an end, not as other men's means. Capitalism is based on voluntary trade. Socialism is enforced at the point of a gun. Socialism is the Looters Creed.
Posted by: Darleen at November 3, 2008 05:50 PM
I agree Capitalism is natural. That's why I'm a capitalist, not a socialist, you stupid git. But it's natural because it's based on greed. It's not based on work. It's based on getting as much as you can by using your talents to take from those who are less willing or able. It makes much more sense to build an economic system based on reality than to try to impose one based on idealism.
I'm not sure what the "X"tians thing is all about - I assume that's just more of Darleen's demented rage at something or other - but Christianity and Capitalism have no connection. Ayn Rand was an atheist not because of her childhood ... she was an atheist because she didn't believe in God! Duh.
Christ said a few other things Dear Darleeny might want to check out before she drinks her boiling brew and takes off on her broomstick:
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."
Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer."
"Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' "Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me."And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
And so on and so forth. I'm not saying anything negative about either philosophy, just making the obvious conclusion that they are diametrically opposed systems of thought.
Posted by: Leah at November 3, 2008 06:14 PM
Leah
It is written speaking of Christ: and the Word became Flesh and dwelt amongst us.
Question: What word would have existed before Jesus?
Answer: The Old Testament.
Which Jesus confirmed as the very word of God many times, it is the foundation on which He stands. The Old Testament and the New Testament are one and the same, you can not separate them as you claim. Without the Old Testament all the prophecy of the coming Messiah would not exist and thus be worthless. You need to understand them in their proper context.
Example: An eye for an eye was meant for judges not for individual people to seek their personal revenge as was the common practice at the time, Jesus explains this in the Gospels which everyone knows, “let he who is without sin, cast the first stone”.
I think you are mistaken that Jesus disdains all wealth and material possessions, Jesus says if you don’t work you don’t eat, do you think He wanted you to work without getting paid or having a way to get to that job?
Wouldn’t that be beyond stupid?
What Jesus would disdain is a person putting wealth and possessions above Him in importance in their life. God promised Abraham great wealth which was possessions of sheep and goats and land and children, if those are evil then why would God have given those to Abraham?
Also note: The God of Abraham is Jesus, who would contradict Himself so thus the Old and New Testament can not be different.
Posted by: ML at November 3, 2008 06:23 PM
ML, I think you're referring to this:
"For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat."
From good old PAUL's message to the Thessalonians. Like denigrating gays, it's another thing Jesus Christ himself did NOT say.
I always wonder how Paul managed to supersede Jesus Christ in the thinking of Yankee style Christians. Could it be because he gave voice to so many of their own baser, more bigoted impulses? I could care less what Paul had to say. The teachings of Christ are contained in the Four Gospels and nowhere else. If you want to follow the Way of Christ, that's the only books you need to read.
The Old Testament is great reading as literature and history, though. However, I have no more interest in their thoughts about homosexuality than I do about their rules for buying and selling slaves. If Christ wanted to validate any of their bigotry on that subject, he had ample opportunity to do so. His silence speaks volumes.
Posted by: Leah at November 3, 2008 06:35 PM
Leah
Obviously I don’t agree.
When the hell did slaves and homosexuals enter the discussion?
That is just crazy and off the wall. Thanks for playing though.
Posted by: ML at November 3, 2008 07:44 PM
Leah
Well if you agree with the Gospels then you must also agree with the Old Testament, you can not have one without the other no matter how much you wish it were different.
Jesus bases His Deity upon Old Testament prophecy. Without that its all bunkum, this is really basic Christian doctrine.
But you are free to pretend whatever you want.
Just don’t acted too surprised when others are also greatly confused by your definitions that don’t coincide with common beliefs and logic.
Posted by: ML at November 3, 2008 08:06 PM
good lord, Leah troll really is in her cups tonight
It's not based on work. It's based on getting as much as you can by using your talents to take from those who are less willing or able.
No, you silly twit, it is based on VOLUNTARY TRADE. That trade can involve physical labor or service or even trade involving units of exchange that represent value (aka money). But you don't labor (work) you don't have any value to trade.
If you can't even describe basic capitalism then you aren't a capitalist, you are a looter...which your "greed" and "it's not work" statements substantiate.
And I used "Xtian" as you know because that's how Christophobes describe Christians. And I realize how much you hate Xtians because you can't even quote the Bible correctly.
ie "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God" is a mistranslation. Just as "Thou shalt not kill" is a mistranslation (it is really "thou shalt not murder")
Secondly, why should Jesus ever speak of homosexuality? He was a Jew and He never disavowed marriage "Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female ... For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’" thus Jesus precludes any other marriage arrangement BUT one man/one woman. And Jesus is citing the teaching of the Old Testament and is stating it needs to be adhered to.
Leah, give it up. You have a looter's soul and the morals of a gnat.
Posted by: Darleen at November 3, 2008 08:18 PM
Obama Staffer Spreads the Wealth Around... Registers in 3 States- Votes in 2
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/
Posted by: ML at November 3, 2008 08:37 PM