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July 18, 2007
Clarity
The Democrats demand for American Surrender has been thwarted.
Posted by Darleen at July 18, 2007 09:46 AM
Comments
"Of all the enemies of true liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.
War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few.
In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people.
The same malignant aspect in republicanism may be traced in the inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and in the degeneracy of manner and of morals, engendered in both.
No nation can preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."
--James Madison, from "Political Observations," April 20, 1795
Posted by: Brad at July 18, 2007 10:14 AM
Yes, the Democrats have been thwarted. But for how long?
Mr Bush's Neocon crusade in Iraq has, so far, accomplished nothing. At least nothing the Neocons said it would.
This war has, however, increased jihadism in the Middle East. In Iraq, terrorism has increased and large numbers of ordinary Iraqis continue to die in a sectarian civil war the US basically caused.
So the rotten policies invented by people like Richard Perle and William Kristol will continue even longer.
Yet, sooner or later even Republicans will face reality....
Posted by: Carl W. Goss at July 18, 2007 12:09 PM
Seen Saddam lately, Carl? Remember how nice he was to the other sect? Good times, huh?
Posted by: Pablo at July 19, 2007 06:18 PM
Pablo,
Even an idiot can see that Iraq is worse off than before the US invasion (Of course, your brain is too small to accept that someone can condemn Saddam and the U.S. invasion at the same time).
It's a damn shame this country has too many idiots like you.
Posted by: Brad at July 19, 2007 06:20 PM
Oh, yes. Iraq was simply wonderful, Brad! Lovely mass graves! Delightful child mortality! Giddy Marsh Arabs rejoicing in having their marshes drained and being relieved of their tedious existence. Kurds frolicking in poison gas. Shia cheerily skipping through the remains of their slaughtered families. Why else would Saddam have gotten 100% of the vote?
You miss him, don't you, Brad?
Posted by: Pablo at July 19, 2007 07:29 PM
I agree with Pablo. Iraq is a wonderland now! Lovely car bombs killing scores of people! Al quaeda with a new place to train! Shia cheerily skipping through the remains of their slaughtered families! Truly this is the best of all possible occupations!
Posted by: Josh at July 20, 2007 09:22 AM
Oh, come on, Josh! How can Iraq be wonderful without chemical weapons and genocide? How can anyone tolerate clean water, electricity, schools and other infrastructure? Really, you can tell how awful those things are by the way the patriotic Iraqi freedom fighters blow them up.
And actually, al-Qaeda is still looking for a place. If you've got some leads, give them a call!
Posted by: Pablo at July 20, 2007 10:31 AM
I know, Pablo! Car bombings and death squads are just freedom on the march! And you make a great point about infrastructure - we're doing a fantastic job rebuilding all the stuff we blew up - it will soon be almost as great as it was before we invaded!
Posted by: Josh at July 21, 2007 09:52 AM
And you make a great point about infrastructure - we're doing a fantastic job rebuilding all the stuff we blew up - it will soon be almost as great as it was before we invaded!
You've got that a bit backwards, infidel. But Allah loves you anyway.
Posted by: Pablo at July 21, 2007 08:36 PM
Look, Pablo, more of that freedom you are so happy about!
Posted by: Josh at July 23, 2007 08:46 AM
That sounds bad, Josh. We should run away and let those bombers be, huh? If we'd just leave, there'd be no more Shiites to blow up, right? Rainbows and bunnies everywhere, right?
Man, Saddam would have known what to do about this.
Posted by: Pablo at July 23, 2007 09:22 AM
As much as I enjoy Pablo's snark, it does cover an essential point. We promised to do the things Pablo claims: get rid of Hussein, get rid of WMD's, and hold elections. Instead of Pablo's reductio ad absurdium of Saddam or nothing, let's put our codpieces on and fly out to sea to announce our mission's accomplished. Saddam is no more and Iraq, according to Pablo, is a garden. So, let's get out. After all, if one is intent on establishing democracy, then one has to note that the Iraqis WANT us out!
Just crazy, ain't it, Pabs? Occupying a foreign country against the will of the Iraqis AND the Americans! Just you, Darleen, Jeff Goldstein and a few dead-enders and Muslim haters is all that's left. And, just like all the other parties you crazy right-wingers throw, you can blame the clean-up crew for making the mess. You've never made a mess (coughs "Somalia"), have ya all?
Oh, try to make this post about Saddam or occupation, Pablo. It's a false comparison, but watching your "rhetorical" contortions as you try to slam the square peg in the round hole is becoming more funny by the car bomb.
Posted by: timb at July 23, 2007 11:47 AM
Saddam is no more and Iraq, according to Pablo, is a garden.
No, Timmah!. Iraq is a battlefield. And the sides are those who want to bring calm and order to it vs. those who want to bring chaos.
Saddam is, thankfully, quite dead.
Posted by: Pablo at July 23, 2007 09:49 PM
Yeah, Timb, listen to Pablo! If we pull out, it may take a bit longer for Iraq to experience the calm and order that can only be imposed by a theocratic Shi'a quasi-state. Don't you see that it's imperative to devote as many American as possible to easing Iraq's transition to an Iranian satellite?
Posted by: Josh at July 23, 2007 10:57 PM
Pablo to Sisyphus: Just a little more time, pal, and the rock will stay at the top of the hill. I swear.
Pablo's willing to spill a little more of other people's blood for his politics and dislike of Muslims.
Posted by: timb at July 24, 2007 07:19 AM
Exactly right, Josh! We love Shiite fundamentalism and we're just keeping an eye on things until the joyful day the Iranians take over.
See Timmah!? You're clueless. Were it dislike of Muslims, we'd be looking to level the whole place. Why do you want Muslims to die?
Posted by: Pablo at July 25, 2007 08:30 AM
Timb, Pablo and his fellow dead-enders don't need to justify the idiotic policy choices they favor. All that matters is their feelings. They really, really, wanted everything to go great, and that gives them a sense of moral authority over everyone who doesn't think creating a breeding ground for terrorists at the expense of billions of dollars and thousands of lives was such a great idea. Since an opportunity to trumpet their righteousness is all they're really interested in, they view the occupation as a success no matter what the consequences are for anyone else.
Posted by: Josh at July 25, 2007 05:42 PM
Josh, feel free to offer your reality based alternative courses of action and a reasonable estimation of the outcomes, in human terms. So far, all I'm seeing from you is feelings.
Oh, and that breeding ground for terrorists? How do you suppose the Iraqis feel about that idea?
Posted by: Pablo at July 26, 2007 05:25 AM
"Surrender."
Why is it that supporters of this war/occupation continue to use that term?
In a stateless war against shadowy, evershifting religious partisans, ordinary concepts of "winning" and "surrendering" are meaningless.
On the other hand, withdrawal from an ill-planned, ill-administered attempt at establishing some kind of colonial empire is something that can be done.
And with a US KIA count of about 110 (on average) every month, I suspect withdrawal will happen sooner, rather than later.
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