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July 21, 2006
The only time I've traveled out of the United States
...is when my husband and I honeymooned for two weeks in France in 2001. It was a special time and worth the extra expense.
But I didn't expect my fellow Americans to pay for it.
What type of ingratitude and sense of entitlement is gripping the griping Americans who chose to vacation or work in known world "hotspots" that they expect American taxpayers to completely foot the bill when they need to leave?
Posted by Darleen at July 21, 2006 07:35 AM
Comments
What exactly do we pay taxes for?
Seems to me American citizens abroad are entitled to something for their tax money.
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Curious, isn't it, (or maybe not) that the current administration didn't have the faintest idea of what Israel was planning.
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Thousands of AMericans put at risk because of Israel's over-reaction.
I don't understand the equation. How is it, that 3 Israeli soldiers and a few rockets, are worth more than the lives of thousands and thousands of Americans? How does Israel get away with putting so many US non-combatants at risk, and then get a pat on the back by the US COngress?.
Mr Bush and his Neocon advisors, not to mention nearly the entire Congress, treat Israel if it were the 5lst State, capable of doing no wrong.
Posted by: Carl W. Goss at July 21, 2006 09:13 AM
Carl
Sure, they can expect the American government to help them out...but nothing to reimburse the taxpayers? You know, like the normal price of airfare? Why should taxpayers foot 100% of the bill for people who obviously already have the means to get there in the first place?
and what do you mean, "few rockets"? Comeon, Carl.... go give me a figure. Do a little more research then simply getting grumpy cuz the JOOOOS don't know their historical place is to merely cry as they are lead to the ovens.
Posted by: Darleen at July 21, 2006 12:43 PM
Odd that you care so much about some people getting a free trip home at taxpayer expense but not the massive moneypit that is Iraq.
Do a little more research then simply getting grumpy cuz the JOOOOS don't know their historical place is to merely cry as they are lead to the ovens.
Where did Carl say anything like that? Or is the anti-semitism card just an auto-response?
Posted by: Josh at July 21, 2006 02:05 PM
Thousands of AMericans put at risk because of Israel's over-reaction.
Oh, that's good, Carl. Hezbollah commits an act of war and you're surprised that Israel reacts in kind? or have you forgotten about UN Resolution 1559?
Hezbollah is being very unilateralist in their actions. They're ignoring a UN Resolution, and dragging Lebanon into a war they didn't agree to partake in.
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at July 21, 2006 03:53 PM
Josh
Look at Carl's post again. He downplays Hezbollah's act of war, which did NOT happen in isolation. Carl is holding Israel to a different standard then he would any other country. I dare say if there was years of provocation from a terrorist group that autonomously held No. Mexico and started launching rockets into San Diego, raided up to the Naval Recruitment Center and murdered and kidnapped US military personnel back into Mexico, Carl wouldn't be shrugging his shoulders wondering what the deal was.
...we must first appreciate that the always specious line between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism has now become completely blurred: Israel has effectively become the world's Jew.
For centuries, a clear sign of the anti-Semitic impulse at work has been the use of the double standard: social behavior that in others passes without comment or with the mildest questioning becomes, when exhibited by Jews, a pretext for wholesale group denunciation. Such double standards are applied just as recklessly today to the Jewish state.*
Posted by: Darleen at July 21, 2006 06:20 PM
(1) Perhaps it is you who need to re-read Carl's post. His point is that the Administration should weigh American lives more heavily in reacting to Israel's response than it is currently doing. Do you disagree that the United States' first concern should be the welfare of its own citizens?
(2) I dare say if there was years of provocation from a terrorist group that autonomously held No. Mexico and started launching rockets into San Diego, raided up to the Naval Recruitment Center and murdered and kidnapped US military personnel back into Mexico, Carl wouldn't be shrugging his shoulders wondering what the deal was.
But the United States isn't Israel, which is the first among several reasons that your argument by analogy is extremely weak, since the whole point is that United States policymakers shouldn't conflate Israel's interests with those of the United States.
(3) I'm not sure what you think that quote and link show, aside from my confirming my point that you and others who are either unable or unwilling to think seriously about complicated series will reflexively respond to criticism of Israel with a cheap charge of anti-semitism. That Natan Sharansky unhappily shares your inability to distinguish criticism of Israeli policy from anti-semitism does not, though he phrases the smear with greater eloquence, make the conflation any more valid or any less a transparent and easy rhetorical move intended to foreclose debate rather than further it. For your part, you could try to formulate a response that includes neither the "JOOOOOS" taunt nor a holocaust reference.
Posted by: Josh at July 21, 2006 10:31 PM
Josh
What is it about "different standards" that you are not getting?
Israel has made itself WILLING to negotiate and compromise with people who likewise willing. Even has unilaterally done things like completely disengage from Gaza... taking every Jew with them.
And what did the Arabs in a newly Judenrein Gaza DO? Elect a terrorist organization and lob 800 odd rockets INTO ISRAEL.
Oslo was a failure, Gaza is a failure... because of Israel? No. Because the Islamists are determined to annihilate the state of Israel and make the whole of the ME Jew and Christian free.
Do you find that acceptable?
My analogy is apt because it deals with two sovereign countries where one allows a significant portion of its country to be run by a rogue, terrorist organization and that organization commits acts of war against the other sovereign nation for months on end.
The Americans, tourists and ex-pats, in areas of the world that the State Department has warned them about certainly are due as much attention as needed to get out. But not at 100% taxpayer expense. And the sheer chutzpah of the ingratitude of these asswipes is breathtaking.
Posted by: Darleen at July 22, 2006 08:17 AM
BTW Josh... note the date on the Sharansky article. The double standard for Jews/Israel is not new.
Criticism of policy is one thing. Holding Israel (or the US) to utopian standards while holding Islamist terrorists and their state sponsors to another one is the essense of anti-semitism or anti-Americanism.
It is bigotry. Simple bigotry.
Imagine someone saying that he seeks the destruction of Italy because he regards Italian national identity as racist. Further, imagine that this person constantly denies being anti-Italian, because he does not hate all Italians, only Italy and all those who believe Italy should exist.
Now substitute "Jewish" for "Italian" and "Israel" for "Italy" and you understand the absurdity of the argument that one can be anti-Zionist but not anti-Jewish. [...]
Take Pakistan, for example. Unlike the Jewish state of Israel, which had existed twice before in history, there was never a country called Pakistan, nor was there ever any other independent Muslim country in the part of India that was carved out to create Pakistan. Moreover, if the Jewish state of Israel is illegitimate because it created 700,000 Arab refugees, why isn't the Muslim state of Pakistan, which created more than eight million Hindu refugees, illegitimate?
The answer is obvious. When people isolate the one Jewish state in the world for sanctions, opprobrium and delegitimizing, they are doing so because it is the Jewish state. And that, quite simply, is why anti-Zionism is simply another form of Jew-hatred.
You can criticize Israel all you want. That does not make you an antisemite. But if you are an anti-Zionist or advocate the destruction of the Jewish state, then let's be clear: You are an enemy of the Jews and of Judaism, and the word for such a person is antisemite.*
Posted by: Darleen at July 22, 2006 08:28 AM
You seem to be unable to grasp or deal honestly with the simple points being made. All we get is a knee-jerk and unconvincing "ANTI-SEMITE!" Nonetheless I'll ask you once more to address the points that are actually being made, rather than the arguments that you'd prefer to consider because you already have stock responses at the ready.
(1) The United States' interests do not always mirror those of Israel, particularly when Israeli policies put American lives at risk. That is why your analogy is non-responsive to the point Carl was making.
(2) Holding Israel (or the US) to utopian standards while holding Islamist terrorists and their state sponsors to another one is the essense of anti-semitism or anti-Americanism.
Questioning whether Israel should have been more restrained in responding to Hezbollah's provocation is not "holding them to a utopian standard." Again, a willingness to smear Israeli critics as anti-semites rather than think things through.
(3) But if you are an anti-Zionist or advocate the destruction of the Jewish state, then let's be clear: You are an enemy of the Jews and of Judaism, and the word for such a person is antisemite.*
This is a non-sequitur, because neither Carl nor I advocated the destruction of Israel. Again we find the lazy, easy, and predictable smear where a thoughtful argument should be. Do you read the comments and think about them, or just immediately start googling for someone else who likes to throw the anti-semitism charge around? You're acting like those leftists who scream "racist!" anytime someone questions whether affirmative action is wise or just.
Try defending Israel's response from the perspective of US interests rather than leveling ad hominems at those who question it.
Posted by: Josh at July 22, 2006 09:37 AM
As I've said before, I don't hate Israel. I'm not anti-semitic.
Is Israel above criticism, because it is Israel?
Posted by: Carl W. Goss at July 22, 2006 11:24 AM