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November 09, 2005

Baptists ... I tell you, MUST be Baptists

Or maybe dissaffected French youths? Via FoxNews

AMMAN, Jordan — Three explosions hit hotels in Jordan's capital Wednesday night, killing at least 18 people and wounding 120 others in an apparent coordinated terrorist attack, police said
What is it about Islamic terrorism [the Ideology That Cannot Be Named] that makes way too many left of center stick their fingers in their ears and sing lalalalalala?

Further coverage and discussion:

LGF
Michelle Malkin
Jeff Goldstein

Posted by Darleen at November 9, 2005 12:46 PM

Comments

OK Darleen, here is what’s happening. Christians like to focus on Al Qaeda’s religion since they think they’re evil for not believing in the same that God they do. So it is easy for Christians to get on the “get them infidels” bandwagon.

On the other hand, really their religion has little to do with their murderous ways. Guess what faith that Hitler professed to believe in? Christianity. (Don’t believe me, see for example http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm .) But it would be wrong to see Hitler and his religion and think that Christianity had much to do with his genocidal ways, wouldn’t it? Well, the same goes for Islam since most of them are peaceful and the book they have is really more peaceful than anything else. Bush himself has publicly said as much.

BTW, do you realize that millions of people here in the U.S are Islamic?

Posted by: Tillman at November 9, 2005 07:16 PM

Tillman

Are you really that dense? Islamism is an ideology, as all-encompassing as the fascism practiced by the Nazis or Marxism by Stalin.

And Hitler was NOT a "believer in Christianity"

Comeon now. Read some HISTORY. Hitler was about the occult and inculcating a cult of personality for German people. He was as ruthless with any church leader who didn't fall in line as he was with Jews.

If moslems in the US accept that we are a nation of LAWS made by The People, then all the luck to 'em. But any one that rejects American values and embraces the ideology of dar ul Harb v dar ul Islam?

Get out of MY country.

Posted by: Darleen at November 9, 2005 07:34 PM

But Darleen - your post is in the context of religion -> BAPTISTS, so you were talking about religion, not ideology.

There are pictures of Hitler with clergy and of crosses at the Nazi graves. Check the link in my previous comment. I guess you dobt that the holicost happened too.

Posted by: Tillman at November 9, 2005 08:28 PM

The question of Hitler's religion is a complex one, and not at all conducive to darleen's snarling simplifications.

This was a man, after all, who said: My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Saviour as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by only a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned me to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love, as a Christian and as a man, I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord rose at last in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was the fight for the world against the Jewish poison." His anti-semitism was bred into him by the Catholic culture in which he grew up. He was hardly an anomaly.

Whatever his personal religious beliefs, he certainly understood the usefulness of Christian churches to his mission. From Speer: "The church is certainly necessary for the people. It is a strong conservative element," he might say at one time or another in this private circle. However, he conceived of the church as a instrument that could be useful to him..."Through me the Evangelical [Protestant] Church could become the established church, as in England." ... Undoubtedly, he continued, the church would learn to adapt the political goals of National Socialism in the long run, as it had always adapted in the course of history."

He often remarked that Christianity was a servile, flabby religion, unsuited to militaristic pursuits (tell that to our Southern Baptists!), but in the end, he certainly was no atheist. Basically, he believed in God, and had no doubt that God believed in HIM: "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."

Hmmm, doing that he's doing God's will in spreading death and destruction....who does that sound like?

Tillman, you will NEVER get darleen to respond to any point where she doesn't have a canned answer. She's an ideologue. If something doesn't suit her predetermined conclusions she ignores them.

Note that every time she references an act of Islamic terrorism, even if it's against other Arabs, her only interest is to pound her war drum...She has no compassion whatsoever for the victims of this suffering in the Arab world, and no interest in any remedies that do not involve the "cult of personality" of her dear leader.

Posted by: S-n-i-c-k at November 10, 2005 03:56 AM

For comparison with Speer's quote, note the following quote from Scanlon, former DeLay aide, now being entangled in the glorious Pub-killing Abramoff scandal, explaining how modern conservative ideologues exploit and manipulate religion:

"The wackos get their information through the Christian right, Christian radio, mail, the internet and telephone trees," Scanlon wrote in the memo, which was read into the public record at a hearing of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee. "Simply put, we want to bring out the wackos to vote against something and make sure the rest of the public lets the whole thing slip past them."

The danger of American fundamentalism is not that they will start blowing up buildings, but that they are complicit, in their ignorance and servility, in the destruction from within of our democracy. But the psychology is the same - exploit religious fanaticism for political ends. Fringe winger ideologues, because of their complete lack of common decency and principle, also have another potent weapon in their arsenal - the general apathy of the non-fanatic majority of American people. They only need to activate their loony fringe to push through an agenda that has damaged the entire country, and our reputation, for a generation, at the least.

Posted by: S at November 10, 2005 04:08 AM

Having looked at Tillman's reference, as well as taking a tour around the rest of the sight (nobeliefs.com is an organ for an atheist organization) I am going to do exactly what they did with contrary opinions and reject it out of hand because of its bias.
It is not a difficult thing to lift quotes out of context and use it as justification for just about anything. Bob Jones created a university doing just that. Nobody in the Christian mainstream takes Jones seriously. Mainstream Christians generally denounce and marginalize the ones who twist scripture for the purpose of fometting hate. Just because Hitler said or thought something does not make it so. Even in the quotes provided, he is saying in essence that "God told me to." Now this is a favorite trick of televangelists as well, when embarking on a course that is at beat questionable if not outright against the tennants of the faith, tell the flock, "God told me to" (Jim Bakker and Pat Robertson did not create the tactic).400 years of Luther's teachings (especially the anti-Semitic ones) made Germany an easy place for this tactic to work. He could claim whatever he wanted, that did not make it so.

Posted by: J Rob at November 10, 2005 04:59 AM

Actually we lefties dislike Islamic terrorism too.

We just don't feel that trying to establish an American-controlled puppet state in the Middle East is the best way to combat Islamic extremism.

Neither do most Americans, I'd say....

Posted by: Carl W. Goss at November 10, 2005 10:53 AM

- Nice try Carl or is it Karl.... either way stating a non-issue to deflect from the one at hand. Like I've told others of your camp, you're no Bill Clinton. IF we were set about to establish a "puppet" state then we could ask all Americans if they would support that. Since we're not there for that purpose its the usual lefty "word scramble" board game of using the language to obfuscate. You don't like the war because it drains lots of dollars you could be dolling out to your rag-a-tag following. you don't give a damn about Muslims, unless they support your party. You made your humanitarian agenda's damn clear when you decided that rabid racism was permissible, as long as it was an AfAm conservative. Your gaggle has tipped its hand in too many ways to have any gravitas at this point.

- As far as Islams themselves, when I see a serious effort coming from the moderate "peace loving" among them to stand up and at least fight the Jihad as hard as Americans are doing then I'll take them serious.

- Btw.... theres every indication that Abu Zarihawi went to far in Ammen. If he losses the backyard support of his own fellow Muslims, his days are numbered.

Posted by: Big Bang Hunter at November 10, 2005 04:50 PM

Snicker, maybe Darleen won't respond, I just hope she thinks about my arguments.

J Rob, I didn't intend to imply that Hitler was really a Christian. But he just thought he was. (Big difference.) Maybe picking an atheist site wasn't my best move there - you have a point. But at any rate you sure wouldn't find pictures of Hitler greeting clergy on a Church website!

Posted by: Tillman at November 10, 2005 07:31 PM

Big Bang , nice going there with the "Carl, or is it Karl". Having grown up being taught what an unAmerican creep McCarthy was, it's always interesting to see how popular he is with the wingnut brigade in 2005. A newly discoverd hero for neo-fascists.

As for your nonsense about racism, anti semitism, etc., that's a smokescreen you've all grown quite fat and comfy with. (Hint: Malkin is a propagandizing ass, don't listen to anyone who talks about racism while defending Japanese internment camps on American soil in WWII)

One only has to spend a few minutes on your typical wingnut freeper site to see who the true American racists are...not that there's ever been any doubt. As one who knows the person who has to transcribe fan voice mails at Fox News, I can tell you that your political pals, if not yourselves, really don't have a problem expressing their true degrading selves when it comes to racism, misogyny and religious hatred. This really is common knowledge, and darleen is only practicing the pubbie trick of "accuse them of what you yourself are doing".

Psst....it ain't working anymore. This country is on the verge of outright HATING this drooling buffoon of a president. 36% in the latest Fox poll, with overwhelming majorties believing he is dishonest, and that the Libby INDICTMENT (funny how head in the sand wingnut darleen doesn't feel the need to opine on her CRIMINAL heroes) means there is a larger problem within the administration. They used fear mongering to cover up their bald incompetence and criminality. But Americans seem to be realizing we're adults and are starting to take their thumbs out of their mouths.

Hey, as long as you can feel like as many poor American children as possible are kept hungry and hopeless...you can rest at ease that you're fooling somebody about how much your heart bleeds for Muslims a world away.

Posted by: Snick at November 11, 2005 03:23 AM