« Adventures in Parenting -- flashback | Main | Women in the United States are second class citizens »

October 17, 2005

Theocracy in the United States?

I mean, how can we take seriously the war against al-Quada's goal of achieving the installation of a Caliphate -- defeating dar ul Harb and making the world dar ul Islam -- when a president of the United States insists on saying:

And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe—the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God.
I mean, it's the same thing. Right?

/off sarcasm

Posted by Darleen at October 17, 2005 07:18 AM

Comments

Actually, a president who wants to make laws based on the Bible or outlaw birth control and abortion because Humana Vitae says so, IS calling for theocracy. If you want to make a law, it has to be based on more than jsut the bible or the catholic church, or else, I hate to say it, THAT'S ESTABLISHMENT OF A NATIONAL RELIGION!

Posted by: Anonymous at October 17, 2005 07:32 AM

Mr Bush says a lot of silly things. I wouldn't pay too much attention to 'em. Especially that
that pietistic nonsense he sometimes puts out.

It's true that the religious right is trying to inflict some sort political litmus test on the GOP.

It's a kind of vaguely Protestant evangelicalism which GOP politicians must give alligence to, in order to get the support of the religious right.

.

Posted by: Carl W. Goss at October 17, 2005 08:29 AM

Anonymous --

I'm a mechanistic atheist (e.g. "I do not in any way shape or form believe in the existence of any sort of Omnipotent Higher Being.")

I am also pretty strongly pro-life.

Do not make the mistake of assuming that the only reason someone might oppose abortion is that "God told them so." You're shooting yourself in the foot any time you try to discuss the issue with that assumption in mind.

Oh, and... WHEN did Bush ever say he wanted to outlaw birth control???? You also hurt your argument when you flat out make stuff up.

Posted by: Strider at October 17, 2005 08:34 AM

Do not make the mistake of assuming that the only reason someone might oppose abortion is that "God told them so." You're shooting yourself in the foot any time you try to discuss the issue with that assumption in mind.

Where in my post did I mention "everyone who's pro-life?" Nowhere. So who's assuming?

I was specifically referring to the religious right. And they DO oppose it for biblical reasons. Hello McFly!

Posted by: Anonymous at October 17, 2005 09:24 AM

Geez, Goss

What makes you assume GW made the statement I quoted?

Posted by: Darleen at October 17, 2005 01:18 PM

Anon

You do realize of course that all Western law on things like murder, theft, etc has it's basis in religion?

Posted by: Darleen at October 17, 2005 01:20 PM

Yes, because all world cultures NOT based on Judeo Christian ethics think murder, theft, rape, etc. are just A-OK. They had no idea these things were bad for people until the BIBLE came along.

Geez. Us.

Posted by: Snickering at October 17, 2005 07:33 PM

Ummm. Just where do these objectionable phrases come from: the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God... that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator... appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world... with a firm reliance on the protection of divine ProvidenceAnswer: The FOUNDING document of our country! The statement that "the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God" is NOT out of line with our nation's founders. You going to argue with them? George says some dumb things, but that statement wasn't one of them.

Posted by: Ranten N. Raven at October 18, 2005 10:38 AM

True. But nowhere does it say that you must believe in one god, or a god on a cross, in order to follow the law. Belief in supreme authority != Christianity as the law.

Posted by: Anon at October 18, 2005 10:43 AM

Anon: Nowhere. And where did George say that? Also nowhere. Our nation's history is one of acknowleging God in a general sense, such that many faiths can nod their heads. Some would remove ALL mention of a creator. Our country was founded on the idea of a creator. Sorry if you don't like it, but that's just the way it is.

Posted by: Ranten N. Raven at October 18, 2005 10:57 AM

George didn't. But Darleen sorta did.

Posted by: Anon at October 18, 2005 12:05 PM

Well, I do have to say one l'il thing;

"the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God..."

Nature forgot to tell me who it's God was, so that's a null.

"that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator..."

That would be my parents, who brought me into this world, and it's "Creators" to be precise.

"appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world..."

I'm having trouble deciding between Wapner and Rheinhold here, but I guess either will do.

"with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence"

Providence is only really divine to visit in the Spring and Summer, the foliage is better in the rest of New England.

I'm not being mean-spirited here, the point I'm trying to make is that all the "The Founders would have..." is conjecture. The one thing that is clear is that they were always VERY open about what they said, leaving a lot of "Where all this comes from/who we worship" open to interpretation." Considering what many of the people who WROTE those words believed, that's a good thing, because I doubt a devout Christian would want to be shoe-horned into, say, Jefferson's beliefs.

Posted by: W. Ian Blanton at October 19, 2005 10:56 AM

Darleen, I find it interesting that you use a quote from a President whom people were concerned that he WOULD create a "Theocracy" in the United States, specifically by paying too much attention to instructions from Rome.

Then again, maybe that was the point? :)

Posted by: W. Ian Blanton at October 19, 2005 10:57 AM

Verona northbound rotary precocity mounted cucumbers.snowfall immovability subordination bioscience?lifelike mortgage loan calculator accept credit cards mortgage loan calculator accept credit cards http://www.rarehomes.net/amortization-schedule.html http://www.rarehomes.net/amortization-schedule.html contradistinction bruising rearranging,Kendall causality? internet mortgage lead internet mortgage lead http://www.rarehomes.net/bad-credit-and-credit-cards.html http://www.rarehomes.net/bad-credit-and-credit-cards.html masts,untold couriers school loans school loans http://www.rarehomes.net/free-trans-union-credit-report.html http://www.rarehomes.net/free-trans-union-credit-report.html retrained sprocket biped paroles low interest loans loan signing agent low interest loans loan signing agent http://www.rarehomes.net/minnesota-mortgage-loans.html http://www.rarehomes.net/minnesota-mortgage-loans.html Uniroyal?model?coveting whoever?posers credit card rating credit card rating http://www.rarehomes.net/payday-sonic.html http://www.rarehomes.net/payday-sonic.html Windsor:textured

Posted by: uk loan capital one account at November 28, 2005 12:42 PM